Talk:Light Gods
Whether or not Michael wants to accept Chaldan now, the Hyrulians of old worshipped him, and thus he's worth a mention. It'd be like ignoring "Tauroch" just because modern Ticonderans are atheists for the most part. --Aurora 12:43, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
I'm with Aurora on this one. Chaldan's part of the history of Hyrule. Since he ws last mentioned in story around twenty story years ago there's plenty of time for it to not be part of modern Hyland, so he has plenty of flexibility in this matter. --Celiose 18:00, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
- Wow. ... Yeah, I'm with Aurora on this one too. This is almost as bad as when someone called you "bossy" in the Kupopolis (story) article. Aurora, I'm sorry our group is treating your stuff like shit right now. This is not supposed to be what Kupopolis is about. --Scen 23:42, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
- Right now? This is a sudden change? Really? I guess this must be all my doing, right? Certainly has nothing to do with a decade of story evolution. --Xstryker 09:48, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- Yes, right now. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I don't think it's cool to disrespect a writer who is currently in the story by basically telling them their stuff is no longer relevent. How would you feel if, after you came back from when you quit writing in Kupopolis, and someone said to you that Dain Kordridge only existed of Ticondera's hypothetical current writer decided they wanted to aknowledge him? It would be rude, hurtful and completely not right at all, because we aren't supposed to do that to people in Kupopolis. So I do think you owe Aurora an apology, and if there is an issue with Chaldan it should be handled between Mike and Aurora off the wiki. --Scen 11:16, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- You're equating Dain Kordridge to Chaldan? I didn't realize Chaldan was such a major character. If so, I apologize immediately. --Xstryker 11:24, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- ... Amazing. Just... wow. I'm speechless. Me, speechless. That's a new low. --Scen 11:35, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- Did I go too far in suggesting Dain Kordridge was a major character? Or is there no difference between major characters and minor ones? Or (since I've never read a post about Chaldan), is there something I'm just not getting here?--Xstryker 11:48, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- Sweet crap, tone it down, you two. Clearly, Chaldan is not a major character (and equating Dain with Chaldan is silly... but frankly, Dain hasn't seen much love in the past... ohh... 5-6 years, so this is kinda a cripple fight to begin with). But I know better than most what it feels like to come back and have the things you've written about swept away... not simply lessened due to natural story evolution, but completely swept away. And it's not cool. Each writer, within the etiquette of the IS community, more or less has dominion over their stuff. --Nick 12:08, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- Let me be frank here. If I took a ten year hiatus, I'd be fine with anything anyone did in my absence, especially if there was no way for them to even contact me. I'd probably be even more fine with it if it involved changing stuff I wrote in high school. When I took a two year hiatus, I explicitly gave Ticondera to Travis to do whatever he wanted, because I trusted his judgment. If he had taken that opportunity to retcon stuff, and still allowed me to get Ticondera back when I returned, I'd have taken what he wrote and expanded things from there. I think Mike's done good work with the Hyland Republic. Aurora's done great work since her return, as well.--Xstryker 12:06, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- Honestly, before this debate goes any further, I'd like to know something. Is anyone challenging my Torak->Tauroch change? What role Chaldan plays in Hyland history is kind of just a minor detail to me. I'm honestly more interesting in defending my own work. --Xstryker 12:06, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- Well, firstly, I don't think there's anything to "tone down," and I don't even think there's a debate here. I was, frankly, literally stunned speechless by Adam's response earlier, because it did seem rather callous and unconcerned with the fact that Aurora really felt snubbed by the comment Adam attached to the creation of this article.
- Also, I don't think the comparison between Dain and Chaldan is at issue here. You could just as easily put another Ticonderan asset there, perhaps of equal or lesser value, and it would not significantly change my point. My point was: our golden rule is supposed to be "respect other writers," and I didn't find the treatment Aurora and Chaldan have been getting as especially respectful. As hot-under-the-collar as I get sometimes, I always try my best not to outright diss other writers and their work in the story, and I think in general we do a pretty good job of keeping our ego-borne spats outside of the realm of story content. But, Adam, honestly, your reply kind of struck me as you saying "You DARE presume to compare pitiful Chaldan to the GLORY that is Major Character Dain Kordridge!?" I don't think you meant it that way, but it was part of the reason I was kind of too shocked to reply. - Scen
- Choosing a different asset might not significantly change your point, but it would significantly change my response. Dain is the center of my entire Kupopolis tenure. That includes my current work - he's such a major character to me that I decided I would have to write a fuck-ton of setup before I could even have him make a cameo. Pretty much anything else would be secondary... except Tauroch, the second lynchpin of my current tenure. That's actually why I'm feeling a bit sensitive right now. Largely because I had assumed Torak was probably somewhat more of a major character than Chaldan was. --Xstryker 12:51, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- Anyway, I'm not going to go on any longer. I'm not here to argue (this time!). I just think somebody's done somebody wrong a little bit, that's all. --Scen 12:40, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
Incidentally, I apologize for the "bossy" thing. I copied it from the "About" page that is still on the Kupopolis Neo archive. I pasted it in and didn't actually read it. I didn't write that line - it was written like five years ago, probably by Dusty, judging on the style, and I'm sure he probably regrets it now. Probably no one really wants to confront this fact, but eight or nine years ago or so, around the time that Dusty, Matt, Nick, and I joined, there was some bad blood over Aurora leaving the story and some words that were exchanged. It's completely ancient history to everyone now. --Xstryker 12:51, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- I'm not challenging anyone. Call Torak Santa Claus for all I care, no sweat off my back. I'm just a little irked that people seem to be willy nilly choosing which of my contributions is important or not without even having the common decency to ask my opinion on the matter. This chorus of people saying Chaldan is unimportant? No, he's not Tahran in terms of level of importance and being dear to my heart (and some of that is probably because he was Jon's Marty Stu, but that's probably TMI), but he's not exactly unimportant either, considering he gave his people the magical doohickey they fought over for hundreds of years. And, for future reference, I'm planning Really Big Things with the Web Pantheon in my Moonchild plot, in case anyone gets the itch to dismiss any of the rest of them as irrelevant.
- At any rate, this isn't even about Chaldan. It's about respect. There's stuff I like about post-me Kupopolis. There's a lot of stuff I don't like, but according to the calendar, today isn't Festivus and I'm not going to start with the Airing of Grievances. However, I want to make it clear that I didn't come back to take over and remake Kupop to conform back to my image. I don't want to trample over anyone's work (and there's been some really good work!), snarky use of quotation marks aside. I've been trying really, really hard to be gracious about this whole thing, but, at the same time, I'm just not going to stand for people treating me like I'm the crazy aunt in the family that people just sort of politely smile and nod at and then shove in the attic when company comes over. This attitude of "well, you abandoned the story, suck it up and deal" is really insulting and hurtful. I didn't take a ten year "hiatus", I was dragged away kicking and screaming because my psychotically religious mother didn't want me writing about "pagan crap" (the bills were only secondary, because when we got AOL again I wasn't even allowed near the Square boards). For all I knew, Kupop was dead all this time. Which makes all this crap that much more painful.
- Jesus Christ, maybe I should have just stayed gone. I've got a perfectly good writing journal on LJ. --Aurora 13:29, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
- Wow, seriously, I had no idea. Honestly, the particulars of what happened haven't been discussed since Clinton was president, and I really don't even remember the details of what I'd heard third-hand. I just meant to suggest that after ten years, it's difficult enough to even know what toes we're stepping on here. The posts were no longer on the boards by the time we joined - by 1997, when I joined, there weren't even any Great War posts left on the board. So most of your tenure, aside from a number of things that Travis reposted, are only known to you and Travis, unless we get Kevin, Shane, or Dan to come back. And just so we're clear, it's not you - it's most of the first four years of the story, written in the old playscript style, that've been slowly drifting towards the realm of Things That Are Okay To Retcon A Bit, Maybe. --Xstryker 14:06, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
Well, I guess since this partly deals with my shit too, I'll add my own two cents:
- First off, everyone please please please please stop with the finger pointing, the whining, the comparisons of apples to oranges and different shades of fuchsia. If there's any wonder why Kupopolis died down for a bit or why there's only 5-6 people participating, this is why right here. I mean Christ people, we're all adults here! Most of you guys are older then me you should know better!
- As for Chaldan, yeah its up to me what I do with him now, but it's apart of Kupopolis's history and it should be here. Like what Aurora said there's some things in kupopolis I really like and other things I wish that wheren't there either. In the end its up to each writer how they incorporate other people's story elements into their own fold, but we must respect them. And this is the rub that kinda transends this discussion. If we don't respect what other people write, even if it was 10 years ago, then why should we even write if no one is going to seems to really care?
- I think though this argument kinda snowballed into one big stink of a thing that's not really worth it. If its just a name on a list, then keep the damn name on the list. Chances are this is one of those things that's gonna go in my "was here before I joined so it will be treated as the mythos of ancient history" realm of story elements. That's my own prerogative to do so. But I'm definitely not gonna write it out of existence.
- (And as a small sidenote, Aurora, IM me at aim:thinkikemike. We should chat. Although me and you are polar oppsites in the Kupoposhere, any disrespect is out of ignorance for not having been around to read anything you've written prior to myself Joining Kupopolis.)
--Michael 14:20, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
...can we please just get into a big circle with a big group hug and sing koom-ba-ya right about now?--Celiose 14:43, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
