Talk:Stacia Apelbaum

Fun fact one: Very loosely based on Anne Coulter, who, I am sure, is the favorite person of almost everyone in this story.

• You realize that only adds fuel to my theory that Kenny = Dubya. --Xstryker 19:19, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

Fun fact two: The congressman I briefly worked for was named Applebaum. I named this character before meeting him, though. --Celiose 18:58, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

Kenny is actually more closely based on Lyndon Johnson. Both have records as savvy legislators but struggle in the executive branch; both have massive domestic policy dreams cut short by their needs to deal with foreign affairs, a realm they have little taste and aptitude for; both struggle with extreme depression; both have to wrestle with the light of better-loved predecessors. And Dubya had only been President for a year when I wrote Pebble in the Sky (11/01), which marked the beginning of Kenny as a main character. To say nothing of the fact that Kenny's politics are probably closer to Johnson's at any rate. I have a bit of a hard time buying this Kenny-Dubya theory.

I concede, however, that the foreign policy struggle in his administration is similiar to that that took place in Bush 43's in the lead-up to Iraq, except the positions are reversed: the doves are the majority, and hawkish Mountbatten plays the Colin Powell role of odd man out.

While we're on the subject, I conceived of the character of Grover Steuber after reading George Stephanapolous's "All Too Human". (Like Dick Morris, Steuber worked for both political parties). Steuber was inspired by his account of Dick Morris. The fact that he could just as easily be seen as Karl Rove shows the durability of the amoral pollster as a villainous archetype in democratic societies. --Celiose 22:26, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

Then you have the terrible speeches, and the ignornace of foreign affairs before taking office. Plus the enormous spending both on military and domestic programs. Oh, and an attack on domestic soil for which the response was... maybe we shouldn't get into this one on the wiki. The hawks and doves are reversed, of course, as is the position on corporations. But Sandra is Condi. And if I can get my ass in gear, you'll have a really unpleasant occupation in 3T.

Oh, and better-loved predecessor? Check, no matter how much Clinton is demonized by the right. He has a slick image like Rhodes does; fortunately for Rhodes, Tasnican politics are way more civil than American politics. Stacia Apelbaum didn't devote her entire career to talking about Rhodes's penis. --Xstryker 08:24, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

Also: Stacia didn't exist during Rhodes' PMinistry, IIRC. So she may well have had some interest in Rhodes' penis, only it was behind the scenes.

I don't think Kenny's terrible speeches are an intentional parallel to Bush2. I remember Travis telling me back then that Kenny's speeches were just really fun to write, because he's an absolute train wreck in public speaking. But it should be kept in mind that Kenny clearly has a grasp on and command for the Common tongue: he's not a complete grammatical moron like Dubya is. At worst he just can't complete sentences under pressure, and his metaphors are kind of silly. --Scen 14:00, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

Well, then by your logic, clearly Animal Farm isn't a paralllel to Soviet Russia, because Russians aren't animals. (or to put it another way, in Soviet Russia, animals farm YOU!)

Also, the intent is irrelevent to me. That's just my approach to literary interpretation - never let what the author insists he means get in the way of a good theory. --Xstryker 15:48, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

Well, the parallel is somewhat incomplete, I think, because Kenny isn't actually a linguistic disaster. In the posts where he's conferring with his staff he is almost eloquent, which really can't be said for Bush. Also, I tend to agree with Trav and think that the LBJ parallel is much stronger, even if his temporal proximity to Bush (and the inter-cabinet feuding) is closer. --Scen 17:49, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

Eh, I guess you see what you want to see. (And of course all of this discussion has avoided comparison of actual political beliefs, with Kenny bucking his own party to lealize gay marriage and Bush 43 turning it into a divisive issue in his re-election, but I digress).

While we're on the subject of Kenny's awful political speaking, it was a refreshing change. Once again my intended paralell was closer to Johnson, who was famous for being able to persuade people in private but performed poorly on television. Kenny's tendency to refer to himself in third person is obviously taken from Bob Dole, his phrase "sunshine and lightbulbs" was something Conrad Burns used in a speech, and "things of this nature" was something a senior year social studies teacher of mine used to say. Kenny is perhaps my largest figure in my private revolt against our tendency to have unnecessarily attractive characters. (Not that I'm completely innocent of that charge myself...) He's also referenced during the election as probably cheating on his wife, but that's never followed up with or explored.

And Matt is correct, Kenny's speeches are really fun to write. After about ten billion speeches of characters trying to sound grand, noble, and somber, Kenny is a refreshing change of pace.

And since this is thereotically talk about Stacia Apelbaum, I should point out that the "Singing Senators" exist in the US Senate as well, which is where I got the idea; Trent Lott was a member.

I should also point out (because there's no way you would get it otherwise) that only one Tasnican Senator was referenced as serving in the Senate in both Neo and Proper: Alex Aks Moe, who is the Tasnican Senate's version of Strom Thurmond. (A joke which was much funnier five years ago.)

I suppose I'll have to cave and make a partial list of Tasnican Senators soon. I don't think I'll go all-out and name all 156 because I want leeway to create them, and allow other writers to create them. (In fact, if my notes are correct, there's an opening in the Populist Senate leadership.) --Celiose 17:56, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure the Singing Senators broke up after Jeffers turned traitor... because, as you know Travis, they were an exclusively Republican group. But they may have recruited another member, who knows? (or, more appropriately... who cares?)

--Scen 19:28, 6 September 2006 (CDT)