Talk:Portal:History

I thought the Syndicate Wars looked better as a bullet than a subsubsection. You can double bullet any subheadings for the Syndicate Wars. Xstryker 08:05, 23 July 2006 (CDT)

I went ahead and filled in some basic eras for us; we can then add what we know, with time. I'm thinking we could link to specific events as needed. (Tex)

I cleaned up the headings/titles.--JD 00:58, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

I combed my hair, had a shower and thought srsly about shaving. Scen 05:12, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

The Grand Army Era

I propose the KMT War, Hivan War, and possibly the OmniSent conflict be grouped together as The Grand Army Era. After the Great War, the Grand Army had displaced the gods themselves as the primary mover and shaker in world events, and were the object of much adulation. The GA served as the principal protagonist in all three conflicts. However, the OmniSent conflict spelled the beginning of the end of GA dominance, starting with the removal of Celiose Cole as Generalissimo. With Celiose displaced, no matter how briefly, the rise of nations as principal shapers of world events had begun, and in terms of loyalty, nationalism replaced globalism/Grand Army adulation.

The intense national loyalties of this new Age of Imperialism inevitably led to the Leviathan War, as competition for influence and resources escalated. However, the senselessness of the Leviathan War and its destructiveness blunted jingoist sentiments somewhat, leading us to the Current Era, which might be better named "The New Peace". In this modern era, all four Great Powers have been humbled; the EU and Scande by the ravages of Leviathan, Guardia by the Cleansing Wars, Tasnica by the repeal of the Extraterritoriality Act and the peaceful detente of the Brackhaven administration, and all four by the growing independence of the Fringe. Imperialism isn't dead, and all four Great Powers are still worthy of the title, but there is more appetite for peace, cooperation, and fair treatment of the smaller nations of the Web than there was before. Xstryker 11:30, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Since no one objected, I made the change. Xstryker 13:03, 3 August 2006 (CDT)

Historical characters

I think this section should be moved to the bottom of the Characters portal. Xstryker 13:04, 3 August 2006 (CDT)

The New Peace

Before anyone jumps down my throat, yes, this is a very ironic title for the current era! A more accurate title might be the "Age of Civil War", but I like the ironic title better. To my cynical mind, then, the "New Peace" is a kind of Orwellian phrase, with meaning similar to "Neoconservatives" or "New Democrats". The New Peace is not simply a new age of peace - it is a new kind of peace altogether. Believers in the New Peace point to the lack of direct war between the Great Powers, and the fact that the scale of destruction in the wars of this period is not as great as the Leviathan War. The real result of the New Peace and Leviathan aftermath is that the diminished role of the Great Powers has led to civil wars among their allies. Scande could not hold Ticondera together, Guardia could not hold Medina together (nor save Bal from the Merge League, initially), Crystal was allowed to solve its own problems, and Alter Dragon was left alone completely in its in-fighting. The mantra of the New Peace is to let local problems stay primarily local. The Scandian league aids its allies, of course, but it doesn't fully commit its resources to any single conflict, mainly letting its allies steer the course of events. This also leaves Scande spread thin, diminishing their desire to engage any of the Great Powers directly, and encouraging them to keep a relatively low profile.

You can follow the progression of eras by the dominant forces involved - first Gods, then the Grand Army, then the Web-spanning Great Powers, and now events are in the hands of regional powers like the Merge League, the Alter-Dragon Combine, and Eblan. --Xstryker 11:02, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

I would point out that this problem seems at least partially recognized in-story by no less a personage than Rhodes Palmerston who, after all, was heavily involved in trying to construct a new Medinan government. (Rhodes, it should be pointed out, should not be accused of being so naive and idealistic as to believe that war could be ended totally). --Celiose 18:13, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

Rhodes is a master of spin - making it all the more appropriate for him to have coined the phrase, sort of changing the meaning of "peace". If this is billed by statesmen as the "New Peace", it makes all these little wars seem OK; "14 people were blown up yesterday? Wow, huzzah to the New Peace - that's way less than during the Great War or Leviathan." --Xstryker 07:27, 15 September 2006 (CDT)

I think it also must be said that the Great Powers are still enormously influential in Web affairs, even if they tend to take less of a direct hand in their flow. The fighting in Merge has been largely between Guardia and Scande by proxy, though there have been direct confrontations between Guardian and Scandian units (as in the Battle of Mergespace, between GSF and SLCM-Space elements). But the analysis Adam presents is amazingly concise and very accurate as far as charting the progression of the last decade-or-so of Kupop history. Too bad the only thing left is for the entire Web to blow itself up. --Scen 18:29, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

It may also be worth mentioning that the Great Powers, in keeping with the "let local problems remain local" mantra, have focused a great deal more on internal development than on external in the years following the LW. Guardia had the Cleansing Wars and post-war democratic reforms, the Tasnicans have passed the torch of the Senate from the Conservatives to the Populists, and Esper has been dealing with its own spate of internal reforms and post-war power-struggles. Scande is the only strange exception to this rule: after the LW, its chief mission seems to have been re-growing the dwindling ranks of Protectorate member states and spreading Communism in the Web. Which is also in keeping with something Travis has said to me more than once: that Scande was (or, rather, is still) probably the single most powerful Great Power of the post-Leviathan War era. Even if I imagined that Travis said that to me, I think it would be more than accurate to say, if we are talking strictly militarily. There is no way any of the other Great Powers are a match for Scande's traditional land, sea and air forces (although I do contend that aerospace is in most cases an equivalent to airpower, so Guardia would probably do well in contention with SLCM-Air or SLCM-Sea's airfighter corps contingent.) --Scen 18:38, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

Well, if we're going to talk about Great Powers solving internal problems, I do think that Scande spent a good chunk of 37-40ish WR focusing on rebuilding from the Leviathan War, I just did a shitty job of posting about it. (They were, after all, completely unable to influence the collapse of Hyliagrad and Ticondera). Right around the early forties they start to try to be more aggressive. And, as I may/may not point out in an upcoming post, Scande's problem is that militarily its a match for any ONE of the other Great Powers most likely, but if it moves too aggressively, it risks a war with all three (something it can't abide by). And that, of course, is viewing power in purely military terms. (I also believe that what I said wasn't that 'Scande' is the largest Great Power, i think I used the term 'communists', which can at times be a tricky distinction.) It also begs clarification that I (anyway) see Scande's emergence as relatively recent and following their victories in Crystal, Kuvalla, and elsewhere; certainly in the immediate post-Leviathan War period Tasnica was the dominant power. (The New Peace, which we're ostensibly discussing here, probably would not have been created without it.) --Celiose 20:06, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

Of course, all of this cynical talk does denude the very real accomplishment that there has not been a Great Power war since the Leviathan War. 27-37 WR, you have the KMT War, Omnisent Conflict, and the Leviathan War along with a number of smaller conflicts like the Imperialist War and Moogle Wars (TM) (also the Hivan War, but there's really nothing the Web could do about that.) 37-47 WR, the only open conflict on that scale was the New Wraith. It should be remembered that the Leviathan War started from a local conflagration in Kakkara of all places. Keeping local problems from inflaming the Web is a step in the right direction, even if there's a long road to go before total peace in the Web.--Celiose 01:17, 16 September 2006 (CDT)