Talk:Kupopolis (city)

No god can enter Kupopolis? Chrystalis sort of lived there for a while. Also, Kupopolis is only the physical center of the Web. The metaphysical center is the Place Which is No More. --Aurora 05:16, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

These days, at least according to the cosmology agreed on by the most people, I think that Source is the metaphysical center of the web. --JD 17:26, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

Yeah, its a little different then what you remembered, we generally adopt a more ontological approach. I always saw the Place Which Is No More as some sort of intangible place outside of existence (like in some ontological arguments the place where god is before there was a god), and Source being a gateway to that place. So Jerry pretty much is right when he says Source is metaphysical center, since its the last place where things have any semblance to physicality. --Michael 17:45, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

Well, my 2¢:

"Source", as a region in Aryth, is likely a derivation from my early declaration (as part of the original Web Dimensional Theory writeup that brought in space travel) that Aryth, as a dimension, was the Web's "Source" dimension, where all the mana-based strands spread out from (which was initially an explanation why you couldn't get there via space travel, because all the strand-flows were exiting the Dimension, but I'm not sure what the consensus is on that now). Assuming this is the case, Source is then just the... well, source of the Web's rivers of Mana (ley lines, strands, whatever nomenclature you prefer).

However, the Place That Is No More has a history in the story of having no small amount of metaphysical importance -- and it is more or less Aurora's province. I don't think it's so much intangible as simply a step removed from the physical realm of the Kupopolis storyline.

Regardless, I think nobody is really wrong here. Source is Source, the Place Which Is No More is the Place Which Is No More, and "center" of the universe is where ever I happen to be standing at a given point in time or space. --Scen 20:01, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

Works for me. Another way I always see APWINM is as a place where human beings can't percieve; to steal that string threory scientst's analogy, its like being a fish trying to figure out what is beyond the pond. --Michael 22:58, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

Heh, a lot of things are "a little different than I remember". Whatever, guys. It's yours, I'm shutting the hell up from now on. --Aurora 23:44, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

... Okay. I've been getting this from both sides for a little bit now. I've got a thrumming headache and here's what I have to say: everybody just needs to learn to share.

She's probably not going to say so on either the Wiki, or the main Kupop boards, but Aurora is hurt and a little miffed by a lot of what's gone on since she came back. And it all goes back to our Cardinal Rule for Interactive Stories: "Respect Other Writers." All this talk about the PWINM is hurtful to Aurora because it's the crux of what she wrote about. When Aurora left, a lot of her stuff became Community Property in the Kupopolis universe, but a significant amount of it was stashed away in the PWINM. Now she's come back, and a lot of what used to be hers is now the province of other writers -- she's come to grips with the fact that she's not ever going to get back 100% of what she contributed to the story universe. But there are some things that are essential to what she does still have, and which are dear to her, and the PWINM is one of them. At least half of the ickiness of this discussion thread is due to that.

I say all of that because I know Aurora won't, and because I really don't want anymore of this childish and increasingly personal spat-fest to continue. As flaming as we've gotten in the past, with our word-count debates and all of that, I don't think it has ever reached the level of trouncing upon another writer's story assets, or their rights to the same. And in the time since Aurora's come back I think we've inadvertantly caused her no small amount of anguish simply out of nothing more than force-of-habit because we've gone so long on the assumption that certain things are public property.

... Okay, the headache is getting worse. I need to eat/drink/kill something now. Just play nice. Please? If not for me, do it for the childrens. --Scen 00:31, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Okay... let me just quickly add that I'm not singling anybody out in this. This is addressed to the larger Kupop community. I think we all need... fuck, I dunno what we all need. Can we just somehow manage to talk about the story universe without saying things that are potentially patronizing/feeling-hurting? And when feelings are hurt, can we handle it in a more nice-and-diplomatic fashion? PLZ!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?? And now I go off to murder people. --Scen 00:35, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

I'm not sure what "childish and increasingly personal spaz-fest" you're talking about, Matt. And if Aurora feels "patronized" or her feelings are hurt, then I'm sorry because something as trivial as an interactive story shouldn't cause that sort of thing. They're supposed to be fun, and when they stop being fun and start being obnoxious, it's time to take a step back. Which is why I've taken so many steps back from this one in particular.

As far as The Place Which Is No More, or any of Aurora's other story assets for that matter, are concerned, she is perfectly welcome to say, do and write whatever she wants. Nobody here is trying to tell Aurora what she can and can not do with the place which is no more. I know that wasn't my intention, and I seriously doubt it was Mike's either. For my part, I wasn't trying to say that the place which is no more is different, or that she's limited in the way she writes about it. I was saying that her saying it's "the metaphysical center of kupop" doesn't make it so.

I think the problem, if there is a problem, is making broad statements about something which potentially effects every other writer's 'assets.' If, in one of her stories, one of her characters says or thinks "wow, the place which is no more is totally the metaphysical center of the web" that's awesome, and if anyone tells her she can't do that they are a dick. Same goes for you if one of your characters (or a fictional character-as-mouthpiece writing an article in-character like the kupopolis (city) article. It's a completely different thing for a writer, outside of the story, to say "The place which is no more is the metaphysical center of the universe." Because, guess what? Not everyone thinks that, and one person saying it is will not make it so.

Respect is a two way street, is what I'm saying. And it is important for everyone to respect everyone else. --JD 02:38, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

p.s. it is saturday night, and I have been drinking. A lot. I find walking difficult. Time to go add some nonsense to the wiki! --JD 02:39, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Here is my two cents okay here goes how can the metaphysical world have a center and if it does how could anyone agree on what it is. In other words, can we please leave this debate for in-story philosophers to debate as a question of the ages? Do we know where the physical center of the real universe is, and if not, wouldn't the metaphysical center be even tougher to pinpoint? For example, in-story, any worshipper of the Web Pantheon would probably say, yes, The Place Which Ain't. Many scientists, mages, atheists, and Narcolics might say "The Source", believing it ground-zero for the Creation (perhaps). And what about Spekkians? Would they point to the End of Time (just spekkulating here!)? Why is there a right or a wrong answer? --Xstryker 17:16, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Because I have an extremely grandiose plot going at the moment that hinges on it being the center of the metaphysical world. Because that's the way I always envisioned it, and that's how I wrote it in the past. Because it was never meant to be a euphemism for death, and maybe that's my own fault for not writing it well enough when I was fourteen. It's as real as Esper or Light or Crystal. It's a really weird ass nebulous place, but it's real.

There ultimately are right and wrong answers to philosophical questions, at least in the Kupopoverse (for instance, atheists? are wrong). The thing is, no one knows who's right, and who's wrong (except UL, but He knows Everything and has a great poker face). PWINM has about 8 billion different names and no one knows what the hell it is except the Gods, because they live there. And me, 'cause I made it and stuff. But it is nebulous enough that everyone can be right about it. It's really fuckin' weird.

And Zelda is the physical center of the universe, or at least that's what she thinks. --Aurora 06:47, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

I still don't understand the metaphysics of a metaphysical center. Is there a metaphysical edge, too? Wait... maybe mana flows out from the Source, and ends up in the PWINM, and that's why it's the center? Does that gel the two theories? --Xstryker 08:25, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

Yes, I think that's what I said above, immediately preceding the part about how drunk I was. But if people understand you better, that's fine. Because we are saying essentially the same thing. (olol spekkulating) --JD 18:52, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

I think that's a good sum up of it X. I wish things were so simple here that we could point to even two locations as the center of the Web )physical or not). It, like so many things in Kupop, is up to in and out of sotry debate, and not really worth any real concern or anything hurtful (though I didnt happen to notice any of that in this thread, personally). As often as "Kupopolis" the city is used, it's almost a null point. I just felt like the entry needed an update from the ON. Spoon 12:11, 2 October 2006 (CDT)